The story behind the KA Mod

[TronFAQ]

It's swell that you guys are trying to find humor in the situation, but we're taking this matter seriously. And thanks for the advice Avi, but I don't think we need to go that far to solve the situation.

Sorry you guys don't find this thread entertaining. If you're looking to see a flame war, you're not going to get one. (And here I thought some of you were saying earlier that you were glad those types of threads were a thing of the past?) That was never the purpose behind this thread.

[data_ghost]

trust me mate we not here for the front seats of jade vs tronfaq bare fist fight. all we want is for all three of you do either agree or agree to disagree, all that matters really is if this mod is released at its best potential.

[Jademz]

I think the big problem for most of us spectators is that this debate is spinning around in a giant circle. Every reply only repeats something that was said earlier, as if it was on an infinite loop.

That's because I've neither played their game, nor made an attempt. it's what ever bounces off me sticks to you like superglue. The most annoying childhood game.

This is like watching a pillow fight between grown men...it's boring and has no entertainment value.

more like their sad attempt to kick the soap around the shower room.

[Jademz]

I've stopped reading, because I have been learning nothing about what's going on in the preceding posts. All you guys have been doing is arguing back and forth, contradicting each other, and spouting insults. Could I possibly have an account from all three of you on exactly what happened? No contradicting each other, either. If it helps, don't even read the other people's accounts before writing yours.

If I'm getting too nosy for my own good, remember that this is a public thread, so I have the right to be nosy.

Hmm. That's easy.

I was asked to join the Living Dead System Operators, I believe that name even changed..

I've been active on the forums and the grid since january 15th 1994. CPU build date: sept. 1993. Forums april 1994.

I was asked to join =CPU= corrupt program users mid 94.

I was left as the last standing clan member in the community.

I joined LDSO afterwards. The sentiment was welcome, since you can tell I don't put up with BS. I helped with a few constructive advisements, mostly consulting. The team is and was somewhat uncommunicative in my presence, no notice taken.

I began hosting servers in late 2005. Where I also host teamspeak.

Several fans of the game join. 3 of LDSO make a brief appearence.

I speak to anyone, equally. Friend or foe. I tell you what I think. Thus, the team is observing me.

Nothing said, after facts of making mods, the team disavows me, and I them. due to a yet to be stated reasons.

The mod continues behind my back. I don't mind(since 1996). I'm not into who makes what. But thanks to a friend Draco, who said you should always relate a source for such an occasion, I do so, since the audience is not aware enough to rationalize w/out solid proof.

Now, my friends have worked on the Tron 2.0 contents as long as I can remember. We had alot of fun doing so. Anytime anyone states problems we address them, to help. I personally hold them dear, since the people I hang out with are genuine.

The persuasion of the mod was enough to change it's direction from teamspeak appearently. And it continued from my personal attention to private forums after I was kicked(from certain forums in here), for unspecified reasons.

Now, I left it alone until a nazi party was formed, and claimed the mod was a singularity. I said nothing until the contents were pulled out.

Those made by my friend 9voltChiken, others too. His work was beautiful. I said nothing until the mod was in disrepair.

Sad, I made my best effort to help.

I learned through private conversations, and emails, that the self proclaimed leader of the KA mod was Tronfaq, and he took the team art work and reduced the quality, stating that it was unnoticable, after the retaliation, the mod was on lock down. Completely unrelated to me.

The release was made, no beta testers involved the people who make objective statements about the content while the evolving mod was continued, then it was released. unbeknown to the full team, or even released to them (contributors included).

The problem was said to have been fixed, the skins being put back into their correct size, (from 64 kb garbage) and the looks immaculate. However, the mod was delayed due to unknowns. That being that Tronfaq was unwilling to cooperate with the team.

I always wanted to see the best work, as did the rest of the KA team, however, that was not the case for all of the team. Thus, as the proclaimed mis-understanding has evolved, you see now the excuses arise for the delay. I stopped waiting 3 mos ago.

The resulting manifest is from the people involved in this small conflict.

So I've came to bring the case up, the way I knew how. And, I've been insulted the whole time by some of the team, thus I state my case, and those in the way will be dealt with.

The comments I've received are a waste of thought. I'll leave it at that.

[SweatyPyro]

trust me mate we not here for the front seats of jade vs tronfaq bare fist fight. all we want is for all three of you do either agree or agree to disagree, all that matters really is if this mod is released at its best potential.

And why this hasn't been done EARLIER.

[Jademz]

trust me mate we not here for the front seats of jade vs tronfaq bare fist fight. all we want is for all three of you do either agree or agree to disagree, all that matters really is if this mod is released at its best potential.

And why this hasn't been done EARLIER.

Bullscript.

The mod is unreleased due to other circumstances. The material I question was a drop in the folder. I could care less what is made of the reasons from the audience, or the team. Don't come to me pointing w/ a reason on my watch. ask Tronfaq.

This mod would have been released w/o problems from some of the team. That's just bad ethics. ATM The problem is unknown to me. I don't need to ask anymore.

[SweatyPyro]

Isn't (And Shouldn't) the problem (be) the mod being released with edited contact and no full use of all material created? That's all my concern is on this thread.

[Jademz]

Isn't (And Shouldn't) the problem (be) the mod being released with edited contact and no full use of all material created? That's all my concern is on this thread.

I am speaking from my own understanding, but if you mean content, the full content is supposed to be released as was stated several times by Tronfaq. So your concerns are in line with everybody elses here. I am asking the same questions to myself..

So where is it?

p.s. you caught me asking. lol

[TronFAQ]

Jademz, I really don't get you at this point. You wanted to make this public, even though it would have been better for everybody if it had stayed private. But, fine. We did as you requested.

However, instead of accepting the explanations given to you: you seem to have your mind made up already and aren't listening to anything we say.

As we explained before: we're going to work with 9Volt, on yours and everyone else's behalf, from this point forward. He'll be given the chance to review the next version before release, and raise any objections or concerns. We'll work on integrating ideas and assigning credit where it's due. I hope you can be satisfied with that.

And despite everything you've said, unflattering or otherwise, you will be receiving credit in the next version of the KA Mod. So will anyone else who helped out 9Volt in any significant capacity. I think I already more or less said that in my very first post. But I'm stating it here now, plainly and clearly for all to see.

[Load81]

I've been active on the forums and the grid since january 15th 1994. CPU build date: sept. 1993. Forums april 1994.

I was asked to join =CPU= corrupt program users mid 94.

Wow, I didn't know the CPU clan was around 9 years before Tron 2.0 came out? That's very cool. What game started it all?

[Jademz]

Jademz, I really don't get you at this point. You wanted to make this public, even though it would have been better for everybody if it had stayed private. But, fine. We did as you requested.

That arguement is false where I nonetheless was involved, when I stated my intentions, and from which the credit is due, however, I did not build this mod. My intention is to have the truth about and from those involved in this fake crap people have been reading from you.

Developed By : Tronfaq
http://mods.moddb.com/8816/killer-app/

The real reason the mod was pulled and quarreled over is right here, so everyone can look and see that there are severe visual damages due to what you did to 9volt's and kain's artwork.

http://www.artsandcraftdesign.com/9/

You still have not returned the name of the mod team or control of it to the other modders.

You still insist on making everyone wait for you and additions which were already completed like the wide screen support ANDERSON made months ago.


This speaks for it's self.

However, instead of accepting the explanations given to you: you seem to have your mind made up already and aren't listening to anything we say.

And why should I, you speak in a language unfamiliar to me, is that called hit or miss?

And despite everything you've said, unflattering or otherwise, you will be receiving credit in the next version of the KA Mod. So will anyone else who helped out 9Volt in any significant capacity. I think I already more or less said that in my very first post. But I'm stating it here now, plainly and clearly for all to see.

Yeah, thanks, but I just want this worked out with everyone involved, as much as I wish to play the game with the KA Mod.

[Jademz]

I've been active on the forums and the grid since january 15th 1994. CPU build date: sept. 1993. Forums april 1994.

I was asked to join =CPU= corrupt program users mid 94.

Wow, I didn't know the CPU clan was around 9 years before Tron 2.0 came out? That's very cool. What game started it all?

Oops 2004, lol. yeah you got that right. my mind was wandering for a second there..

[9Volt]

Ok, I really didn't want to get involved in this thread cuz it seemed probable that it could make things worse but please know that I do not want to antagonize anyone with the following but I simply felt that I needed to respond to some things here & hopefully help sort this out so that peace and happyness can once again flow through the gamegrid for all programs to utilize at optimal efficiency.

9VoltChicken was unhappy about me compressing his skin textures for the multiplayer characters. I had forgotten that I made this promise to him. Whether or not there's any visible difference between compressed or uncompressed, I broke a promise. So I apologized to him for it, and I believe we've managed to settle our differences amicably in private. The next version of the mod will have uncompressed textures.

Several aspects of this statement are disengenuous & untrue: for one, we DID communicate on the night before you released right up till just hours before you uploaded the mod to MODDB but not a beta to me and a beta was sent out a week earlyer to nearly EVERYONE even ppl who weren't on the mod team but never one to me. Secondly, how could you forget what had been gone over just hours before the release? Thirdly, I was assured by you that night that many things were presently included in the mod which were not included & that ALL of it would be in the next version, so compressed textures was certainly not the only issue here.

For the record, just a few of the other problem issues here were:
Improper (& probably illegal) copyright claims which were in violation of the Tron 2.0 licence agreement which you made in the installer & readme, on everyone's behalf WITHOUT consulting anyone about it 1st. (that was not a good idea but I know you said sorry about that and plan to correct it in the next version so thankyou)
Failure to credit several individuals on the page and in the readme by giving them correct credit & the opportunity to describe their own work for the readme.
Misattributing some of these ideas and changes to yourself alone.
Failure to provide all file contributing persons with a beta for testing & get a goahead 1st before publishing.
Altering the mod team name from Killer App Mod Team without consulting anyone.
Altering the members of that team to exclude people who actualy created content for the mod while adding others to the team & providing full admin access to these folks who only did testing for the mod. (Like locking me out of the mod page after publishing on that same day and never even allowing others like Sketch, Kain, Raven or whiterabbit the mod coleader modDB page access that should be reserved for all contributing mod team members but should not be given to testers since they did make any files which they would need to upload screenshots of or describe on the modDB Killer App Mod Team pages)

Whether or not there's any visible difference between compressed or uncompressed

??? WHAAAAT? please see: http://www.artsandcraftdesign.com/9/
Seriously, please be real. That is a VERY visible difference & my UNaltered graphic on the left is 512x512 pixels - the same size as the KMX skins from YEARS ago. I thought we had clearly established in ICQ chats the alteration was not only damaging to the work but also unneccesary so therefore it WAS a mistake to do this.

So I would politely request that you please explain why you are now implying otherwise? The most recent and only appology I got from you in that chat is dependant on the admiting that it was a mistake and that you were sorry for that mistake but now it's as if you're saying it was not a mistake which makes the sincerety of the appology dubious.

The closest I've gotten to an explanation from you is that you "tested several attributes integral to benefits in the mod". Well that statement is so vague, as to be completely meaningless. Give me specifics.

You know all the specifics I just listed them for you in one of our most recent chats in ICQ and u agreed that these people should be credited it's the right thing to do, so why are you interogating jademz as to the nature of that which you already clearly know? Did you forget this chat too?

Did you come up with the idea of changing the Light Cycle trails?

No actualy that was me that came up with that & then you miscredited it to yourself alone (perhaps by mistake? if so, seriously it's ok man. We all are human & make mistakes & we're all getting worse memory as we get older.)

But just as a refresher here are excerpts from the ICQ chat:
Session Start (9699370:tronfaq): Wed Mar 07 15:40:36 2007
[15:40] *** NOTE: This user is offline. Your messages will be received when he/she logs into ICQ.
[23:07] 9VoltChiken: heya sorry about the sudden dropoff this mornin i waited forawhile to see if the satelite would pick it back up but it didn't so either ICQ was dead or my sat connect was FAPed dunno which
[23:43] *** You have been disconnected. Wed Mar 07 23:43:13 2007.
[00:14] *** "tronfaq" signed on at Thu Mar 08 00:14:53 2007.
... [alot of chat about desperate housewives the video game & other misc randomness] ...
[01:53] 9VoltChiken: the trails in the movie had like a white gradient where the first emerged from the LCs, and the trails didn't start as deep into the LCs.
[01:53] 9VoltChiken: in Tron 2.0 there's no white gradient, and the trails start further in
[01:53] tronfaq: and they could have made the LCs sound more like the film
[01:53] 9VoltChiken: i been workin on a new set of sounds to match the movie some already
[01:53] 9VoltChiken: for the LCs
[01:54] 9VoltChiken: just for me cuz i hate the way they sound too
[01:54] tronfaq: but i'm guessing they wanted to put their "personal stamp" on things
[01:54] 9VoltChiken: but yeah they do need help on the graphics side too
[01:54] 9VoltChiken: that they need a much longer gradient fade to trailcolor
[01:55] 9VoltChiken: or a gradient alpha might be even nicer
[01:55] tronfaq: you know how it is . . . when somebody works on an existing property, they always gotta change things to make them stand out or set them apart from their predecessors
[01:55] 9VoltChiken: like they come outa the cycle REAL rezzed up and energetic
[01:55] 9VoltChiken: and then stabilize to normal lighttrail aftera few grids distance
[01:55] 9VoltChiken: that distance doesn't even need to change with speed
[01:56] tronfaq: keeping what works well is a no-no, you see
[01:56] 9VoltChiken: just as long as it isn't instant
[01:56] tronfaq: always gotta change things for the sake of changing them
[01:57] 9VoltChiken: yeah well that's why i just don';t even ask for changes or try to make em unless there is a really clear problem that messes with gameplay or makes it look crappy to more than just me
[01:58] 9VoltChiken: i mean if i fixed all the things that just bug me about tron it would be a new game and i'd be 40 before it was done
[01:58] tronfaq: heh, yeah
[01:58] 9VoltChiken: but if i can see it and as soon as a say it ppl are like YEAH!! i hate that too
[01:58] tronfaq: well, i'd like to adjust the LC trails and sounds but that has to wait for the future
[01:58] 9VoltChiken: then im like man we gotta fix this
[01:59] tronfaq: it would require a lot more work to make the trails look different
[01:59] 9VoltChiken: really? i thought it was just a graphic
[01:59] 9VoltChiken: and a alpha stencil
[01:59] tronfaq: well, i'm thinking the position change as well
[01:59] 9VoltChiken: maybe i could take that alpha stencil and double it's length
[02:00] 9VoltChiken: and if i darkened it a bit but the trail brightness was turnd up it'd prob do about what yer lookin for with the look of it
[02:01] 9VoltChiken: as well as elimminate that funny issue with trail looking like it sticks straight up fromt he cycle wheel in some maps
[02:01] 9VoltChiken: like with the overboard lighting
[02:01] 9VoltChiken: on those map it makes it look like the trail is superglow from some angles and sticking up outa the wheel
[02:02] 9VoltChiken: then from other angles the light is more subdued and sane so the trail looks rather blah colored but still ok and the alpha stencil works and makes it look rounded
[02:03] 9VoltChiken: but the rounding is still inaccurate to the movie
[02:03] 9VoltChiken: it's a 1/4 circle
[02:03] 9VoltChiken: and it should be alot longer to full trail height
[02:03] 9VoltChiken: likje 2 grids almost
[02:03] tronfaq: well, i would save that for a future version . . . for now, i just want to get something done and out there. ...

9Volt didn't communicate to me that anyone had helped him, until after the mod was released. That was my fault, because I didn't wait for him to look over the mod before release. He could have communicated to me, what he felt was wrong or missing. But the mod release had already been announced, and I wasn't able to get in contact with him before the release.

Actually that is outright untrue & everyone here knows that we did talk on the night of the mod release till just hours before you released it after assuring me that all things were exactly as we agreed.
These statements about what was included & that my work was all unaltered were quite clear. That same morning the entire charachters skins was redownloaded by you & in their exact final state for the 2nd time - the prior time being october 29th 2007. You also said that you would send me a beta to look over and did not so there was alot of stuff said that day by you which was untrue and again it's hard to belive that forgetfulness alone could account for all these mistakes unless you had Alzheimer's disease at such a young age which is very very rare.

Some of these are very misleading and diversionary statements. It seems to me that you're attempting to misrepresent jademz claims and you're saying that he's claiming credit for the entire mod as a straw man arguement to stab to distract from the real issue. Jademz is NOT claiming that he created this mod or deserve any credit for anything except testing & artistic design feedback. The real issue and claim I've been making and I think jademz has been trying to communicate: that you've sequestered this project to yourself alone when many others helped create it and that isn't nice and still should be corrected.

This mod was conceived of on Teamspeak with all of us yes, jademz has been making that statement and perhaps you are misinterpreting his meaning. It's my impression that what he meant to convey is that fact that we all did sit there talking night after night about the futility of modding for Tron 2.0 as long as they are all seperate mods and it was that night that I put forward the notion that we should merge ALL mods into a single one & add everything we can create to it so that there would be one complete multiplayer mod with EVERYTHING to replace the original mutliplayer completely. That same night we discussed stuff I had been learning from Layer & Vman about importing models to Maya and how I'd been helping zook1 by sending him emails & feartools files detailing that information in the hopes that he'd complete this knowledge and be able to get the models back into the game once exported from Maya. We also talked about the skin graphics I'd been working on and things that were bothersome for me like the elimiation of the clusters runspeed slowdown, the spawn protection in DM by full armor due to the annoying issues of lag generated by repeated spawnfragging, and it was also one of my concerns to reduce the number of ricochets on deflected discs for Power Block, by lowering it from Gold to Beta so that players are not robbed of their disc for so long.

These ideas were not co-attributed correctly nor was the LC trails idea - so I'm pretty sure jademz' meaning in saying all this stuff about those early talks is this: it's as if you did not feel that anything anyone does or comes up with should be attributed to them if you overheard it on teamspeak chat or assisted by implimenting these proposed changes. That somehow perhaps you feel that if you did anything then you therefore did everything and that is not a friendly or fair way to look at things.

We can all still progress towards the desired outcome of an outstanding piece of work here and I am pretty sure that we are still on track towards that, I am still working on the other 2 skins sets clear and polite conversations about how to progress with this are all we've had since April the 25th. I sure hope that all this blur of intermittent rudeness towards each other on the forums has not in somen way harmed the likelyhood of a positive & hi-quality outcome here.

think of this project as what it is an explandable pie of possible enhancements for a game we all love. As time goes on more and more great stuff could be a part of this mod evolving & growing the enjoyment that modders and players derive from Tron 2.0 by giving them the opportunity to create new content for integration & then experience it soon after as a normal part of gameplay.

There are not that many of us tronfans around here still maybe 20 maybe 40 at most but it's a dedicated group of poeple with an intense loyalty to this Tron idea and I think maybe that passion is what makes ppl get so emotional about the outcome of this mod issue. That which really excites us can sometimes lead to tempers flaring & toes getting stepped on.

If we just keep calm heads from here on and try hard to be complimentary towards each other whenever possible and cooperate as best we are able then all this will not have been for nothing. That which does not destroy tron 2.0 makes it stronger but yeah the purely directionless & reasonless bickering is pretty counter productive. It always takes 2 to tango so no 1 person is to blame here we all have done our fair share of going off at each other but now is as good a time as any to stop being angry and see each other as what we all are here: we are all assets to the community and a valuable people who care alot about the good of Tron 2.0 and what happens with it.

For all our differences of opinion I am positive that we also want many of the same things, so perhaps we should ALL try hard to keep focused on our common interests and restrain our arguements to clear claims that are backed up with reasons (& evidence if needed) to support those claims rather than just debate over nothing till it becomes diluted name calling.
SmileyDuel

[Mor.Evil-1]

Hello readers.

I think everyone can agree that this thread has gone on long enough.

The past 3 pages of posts,
Is exactly why any and all materials, information, and posts regarding the KAM were moved to a locked section of the forums untill all problems, concerns, creative differances, etc could be managed and worked out privatly amongst the creators of the KAM.

At this point,
I would feel it to be extremely irresponsible (More so than it already has been) to allow these incoherent ramblings to continue.

Make me out to be a corn hole at this point I dont care.

Im locking this thread as of this point.
Load and I will decide wether we want to keep it listed or not,
Over the next few days.

If anyone else out there has anymore comments or concerns,
Would like to call ldso jerks,
Call me a a-hole, fat @ss or whatever for the hundreth time,
Please forward them to grwup@now.com

We are not boxhat,
And we will not allow our forums to turn into a trash talk site,
Un-moderated and forgotten.

It is examples like this thread,
That prove it is best to work things out privately with one another,
Rather than in public displays of immaturaty such as this.

I made a promise,
Not to delete this thread,
And allow everyone the freedom,
To post what they wanted regarding this topic.
So hence why it exists.

I am also hoping,
That the posts made by myself and others,
Provided the answers and reactions certain persons were looking for,
And found them entertaining.

I think Chicken wrapped things up nicely,
And commend him for taking the time to post,
regarding this most difficult time.

Jademz,
I truly hope this has helped you out in some way.
Anything else you might like to know,
(As I have stated many many times),
Please email myself, Load or X.

Chicken,
Email me when you get a chance please.

FAQ,
We need to have a chat.

To everyone else out there,
Daddyo, Pyro, .dll, Avi, and so on.

Thanks for putting up with the bs.

We hope you can get back to your regularly scheduled postings,
a.s.a.p.

Regards to all,

Mor